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	<title>Comments on: Steve Yegge hits a homer: Your requirements are stupid.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://jessenoller.com/2008/08/12/steve-yegge-hits-a-homer-your-requirements-are-stupid/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://jessenoller.com/2008/08/12/steve-yegge-hits-a-homer-your-requirements-are-stupid/</link>
	<description>python, programming and other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2012 06:06:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Andy Kayley</title>
		<link>http://jessenoller.com/2008/08/12/steve-yegge-hits-a-homer-your-requirements-are-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-139206</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Kayley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 05:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jessenoller.com/?p=292#comment-139206</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m loving the &quot;volvo on the side of your battleship&quot; comment .... soo true :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m loving the “volvo on the side of your battleship” comment .… soo true :)</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Kayley</title>
		<link>http://jessenoller.com/2008/08/12/steve-yegge-hits-a-homer-your-requirements-are-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-64947</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Kayley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jessenoller.com/?p=292#comment-64947</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m loving the &quot;volvo on the side of your battleship&quot; comment .... soo true :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m loving the “volvo on the side of your battleship” comment .… soo true :)</p>
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		<title>By: jnoller</title>
		<link>http://jessenoller.com/2008/08/12/steve-yegge-hits-a-homer-your-requirements-are-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-62332</link>
		<dc:creator>jnoller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jessenoller.com/?p=292#comment-62332</guid>
		<description>No one is &quot;re-discovering&quot; anything - Yeah, this is old hat rehashed, but it still doesn&#039;t change the fact that too many companies, people and developers themselves don&#039;t adhere to basic sanity. You don&#039;t need to preach to the choir.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No one is “re-discovering” anything — Yeah, this is old hat rehashed, but it still doesn’t change the fact that too many companies, people and developers themselves don’t adhere to basic sanity. You don’t need to preach to the choir.</p>
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		<title>By: Aron T</title>
		<link>http://jessenoller.com/2008/08/12/steve-yegge-hits-a-homer-your-requirements-are-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-62331</link>
		<dc:creator>Aron T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jessenoller.com/?p=292#comment-62331</guid>
		<description>Jeez, read the Mythical Man Month. Then read it again. Fred Brooks was the first to say it and he said it better than anyone since. Why people need to keep on re-discovering the obvious is beyond me. FOSS projects are successful because they follow so many of Brooks principles for success.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeez, read the Mythical Man Month. Then read it again. Fred Brooks was the first to say it and he said it better than anyone since. Why people need to keep on re-discovering the obvious is beyond me. FOSS projects are successful because they follow so many of Brooks principles for success.</p>
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		<title>By: CAT</title>
		<link>http://jessenoller.com/2008/08/12/steve-yegge-hits-a-homer-your-requirements-are-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-62330</link>
		<dc:creator>CAT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jessenoller.com/?p=292#comment-62330</guid>
		<description>There is a lot of truth in this. &lt;br&gt;I cannot say, who approved or dismissed the requirement for a trash bin at least somehow similar to the desktop counterparts in every iPhone 1.0 app, but both the person (don&#039;t care shit, if he&#039;s also named Steve ?;-) and this requirement is extraordinarily stupid, too.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In another media company which tried to jump the music download bandwagon, a service they killed soon after Apple started dropping DRM I was in a project where a couple of stakeholders had various meetings about how the search pages and &quot;microformats&quot; for music download items should be designed. A couple of approaches from various business guys and managers a &quot;simple&quot; DBA or sysadmin stood up and said &quot;This is all Bullshit, let&#039;s try the opposite approach&quot;. And it worked just fine for us to design and implement it in a few week&#039;s time.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I know a few similar episodes, but this probably meets your tagline best..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a lot of truth in this. <br />I cannot say, who approved or dismissed the requirement for a trash bin at least somehow similar to the desktop counterparts in every iPhone 1.0 app, but both the person (don’t care shit, if he’s also named Steve ?;-) and this requirement is extraordinarily stupid, too.</p>
<p>In another media company which tried to jump the music download bandwagon, a service they killed soon after Apple started dropping DRM I was in a project where a couple of stakeholders had various meetings about how the search pages and “microformats” for music download items should be designed. A couple of approaches from various business guys and managers a “simple” DBA or sysadmin stood up and said “This is all Bullshit, let’s try the opposite approach”. And it worked just fine for us to design and implement it in a few week’s time.</p>
<p>I know a few similar episodes, but this probably meets your tagline best..</p>
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		<title>By: jnoller</title>
		<link>http://jessenoller.com/2008/08/12/steve-yegge-hits-a-homer-your-requirements-are-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-62327</link>
		<dc:creator>jnoller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:32:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jessenoller.com/?p=292#comment-62327</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s quite alright - I too once thought requirement were stupid. When I get a chance, I might work up a post on a project that I spearheaded (it was an internal one) where I outlined the requirements, wrote the code (badly) and then pushed it upon the users. It ended well - after much pain and time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’s quite alright — I too once thought requirement were stupid. When I get a chance, I might work up a post on a project that I spearheaded (it was an internal one) where I outlined the requirements, wrote the code (badly) and then pushed it upon the users. It ended well — after much pain and time.</p>
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		<title>By: Wardo</title>
		<link>http://jessenoller.com/2008/08/12/steve-yegge-hits-a-homer-your-requirements-are-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-62326</link>
		<dc:creator>Wardo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jessenoller.com/?p=292#comment-62326</guid>
		<description>Upon re-reading my comments, I realize I didn&#039;t effectively communicate my position.  That position is:  Requirements are *mostly* necessary, and the discipline of requirements engineering is a neglected and misunderstood discipline.  I apologize for the *immature* remark, because now I understand where Steve is coming from, and stupid requirements are a huge problem and more often than not constitute the majority of requirements set down - I have worked in environments with stone tablets for requirement templates.  My comment originated from the colloquial developer predisposition that requirements, in any form, are an unnecessary burden and that the process needs to go away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Upon re-reading my comments, I realize I didn’t effectively communicate my position.  That position is:  Requirements are *mostly* necessary, and the discipline of requirements engineering is a neglected and misunderstood discipline.  I apologize for the *immature* remark, because now I understand where Steve is coming from, and stupid requirements are a huge problem and more often than not constitute the majority of requirements set down — I have worked in environments with stone tablets for requirement templates.  My comment originated from the colloquial developer predisposition that requirements, in any form, are an unnecessary burden and that the process needs to go away.</p>
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		<title>By: Kumar McMillan</title>
		<link>http://jessenoller.com/2008/08/12/steve-yegge-hits-a-homer-your-requirements-are-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-62329</link>
		<dc:creator>Kumar McMillan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jessenoller.com/?p=292#comment-62329</guid>
		<description>Although I agree that &quot;requirements gathering&quot; usually smells of overpaid balding contractors, I&#039;ve noticed that a software project will quickly fail if there is not a clear specification for how a user should use it.  Rather than use the word specification, my company has adopted the phrase User Story.  Specifically, we pull a lot of operational theory from the Scrum methodology (&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_%2528development%2529&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_%28developme...&lt;/a&gt;).  Scrum goes so far as to say all User Stories must look like this: &quot;As a &lt;specific user&gt; I want to &lt;perform some action&gt; so that &lt;some value is achieved&gt;.&quot;  While it is sometimes hard to get these stories right the structure is genius.  It forces the development team AND the business to prioritize features better, cut out unnecessary features, and focus on delivering software solutions to the user for business value.  If the stories aren&#039;t in this structure then they start to look more like &quot;requirements.&quot;  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I heard recently about a team that had a story, something like &quot;Migrate to new database.&quot;  This never got prioritized in a work sprint.  The business and developers just kept pushing it back putting other stories in front of it.  Then, finally someone rewrote the story better: &quot;As a developer I want to migrate the database from Oracle to Postgres so that the business can save hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.&quot;  Well, guess what, that revised story took precedence over all others ;)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It&#039;s also true about having one single visionary.  There&#039;s another interesting methodology called DSDM (&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSDM&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSDM&lt;/a&gt;).  They actually define a role in software development called the &quot;Visionary,&quot; a person who is responsible for the direction of the product.  This always reminds of the Mac OS X desktop.  I read somewhere that there is *one* single person who approves UI decisions.  I personally think OS X has a great user interface and if this is true then it certainly proves the importance of making one person (not a committee) in charge of the really hard decisions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I agree that “requirements gathering” usually smells of overpaid balding contractors, I’ve noticed that a software project will quickly fail if there is not a clear specification for how a user should use it.  Rather than use the word specification, my company has adopted the phrase User Story.  Specifically, we pull a lot of operational theory from the Scrum methodology (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_%2528development%2529" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_%28developme" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_%28developme</a>…).  Scrum goes so far as to say all User Stories must look like this: “As a &lt;specific user&gt; I want to &lt;perform some action&gt; so that &lt;some value is achieved&gt;.”  While it is sometimes hard to get these stories right the structure is genius.  It forces the development team AND the business to prioritize features better, cut out unnecessary features, and focus on delivering software solutions to the user for business value.  If the stories aren’t in this structure then they start to look more like “requirements.”  </p>
<p>I heard recently about a team that had a story, something like “Migrate to new database.”  This never got prioritized in a work sprint.  The business and developers just kept pushing it back putting other stories in front of it.  Then, finally someone rewrote the story better: “As a developer I want to migrate the database from Oracle to Postgres so that the business can save hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.”  Well, guess what, that revised story took precedence over all others ;)</p>
<p>It’s also true about having one single visionary.  There’s another interesting methodology called DSDM (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSDM" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSDM</a>).  They actually define a role in software development called the “Visionary,” a person who is responsible for the direction of the product.  This always reminds of the Mac OS X desktop.  I read somewhere that there is *one* single person who approves UI decisions.  I personally think OS X has a great user interface and if this is true then it certainly proves the importance of making one person (not a committee) in charge of the really hard decisions.</p>
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		<title>By: jnoller</title>
		<link>http://jessenoller.com/2008/08/12/steve-yegge-hits-a-homer-your-requirements-are-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-62328</link>
		<dc:creator>jnoller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 01:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jessenoller.com/?p=292#comment-62328</guid>
		<description>Also, see this comment: &lt;a href=&quot;http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/08/business-requirements-are-bullshit.html?showComment=1218584700000#c3033721731582167176&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/08/busines...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, see this comment: <a href="http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/08/business-requirements-are-bullshit.html?showComment=1218584700000#c3033721731582167176" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/08/busines" rel="nofollow">http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/08/busines</a>…</p>
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		<title>By: jnoller</title>
		<link>http://jessenoller.com/2008/08/12/steve-yegge-hits-a-homer-your-requirements-are-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-62325</link>
		<dc:creator>jnoller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 00:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jessenoller.com/?p=292#comment-62325</guid>
		<description>So, Steve and by extension, I, am not arguing *against* requirements - we&#039;re both arguing against the &quot;normal&quot; method of gathering and identifying those requirements (and by extension, features) in many companies, starups and others alike. Steve&#039;s idea is simple: Don&#039;t build something *you* wouldn&#039;t use. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t think anything either one of us has said runs counter to the idea of mission-critical applications. Especially when designing those types of devices and applications it&#039;s important not to muddy the waters with useless features, ideas, or requirements. It&#039;s critical to &quot;keep to the core&quot; - do one thing, and do it exceedingly well. Design one thing: And design it well.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Do not create things you yourself - or your company - you would not use. Requirements are good - they define what you have to do, but where those requirements and features come from is the key to what we&#039;re both saying.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As for waterfall going the way of the dinosaur - well, you obviously haven&#039;t worked in a lot of bigger software teams or groups, or with people who &quot;came to age&quot; in that era. The waterfall method of requirements definition is very alive and well, much to the chagrin of many :)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The same applies to specs - you can design a per-the-spec NFS server, but guess what? Most clients on the desktop and server are *not* spec compliant. You will always be making concessions to clients that played it fast and loose.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It&#039;s much better to identify your core users (of which you are one) and write the software to help and serve *them* - not the spec.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Ultimately I think Steve&#039;s post stands on it&#039;s own: Build something you love, use and believe in. Don&#039;t build something for some mythical audience with a made up set of requirements which will ultimately not serve them properly - a product that only does 50% of what they need, 50% of the way they need and want to work will ultimately fail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, Steve and by extension, I, am not arguing *against* requirements — we’re both arguing against the “normal” method of gathering and identifying those requirements (and by extension, features) in many companies, starups and others alike. Steve’s idea is simple: Don’t build something *you* wouldn’t use. </p>
<p>I don’t think anything either one of us has said runs counter to the idea of mission-critical applications. Especially when designing those types of devices and applications it’s important not to muddy the waters with useless features, ideas, or requirements. It’s critical to “keep to the core” — do one thing, and do it exceedingly well. Design one thing: And design it well.</p>
<p>Do not create things you yourself — or your company — you would not use. Requirements are good — they define what you have to do, but where those requirements and features come from is the key to what we’re both saying.</p>
<p>As for waterfall going the way of the dinosaur — well, you obviously haven’t worked in a lot of bigger software teams or groups, or with people who “came to age” in that era. The waterfall method of requirements definition is very alive and well, much to the chagrin of many :)</p>
<p>The same applies to specs — you can design a per-the-spec NFS server, but guess what? Most clients on the desktop and server are *not* spec compliant. You will always be making concessions to clients that played it fast and loose.</p>
<p>It’s much better to identify your core users (of which you are one) and write the software to help and serve *them* — not the spec.</p>
<p>Ultimately I think Steve’s post stands on it’s own: Build something you love, use and believe in. Don’t build something for some mythical audience with a made up set of requirements which will ultimately not serve them properly — a product that only does 50% of what they need, 50% of the way they need and want to work will ultimately fail.</p>
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